We’ve seen a lot of birds this season so far. But I’m curious to know what y’all think about this photo, posted on the Nevada Chukar Hunters’ Facebook page of some Nevada men on Brownlee Reservoir in Idaho recently (click the photo to go to the post).
that is taking way too many birds out of one area. Most populations are barely holding average and this does not help
Seems that way to me too.
I think these guys are also hunting for attention in addition to birds. Poor form to hotpot a location as well, but damn the locals, right?
Yes, looks like that to me too.
Beyond the number of birds taken (I counted upwards of 50 in the photo) I find photos like this to be in pretty bad taste.
Agreed entirely.
It looks like these guys are hunting for attention in addition to birds. Poor form to hotpot the location with the photo as well, but damn the locals, we got ours, right??
Unfortunately we are in the “look at me” era to push products and egos. Personally I think September is too early for the season as an additional month will allow those late hatchers to develop. Who wants to shoot young birds, not much challenge in that. Second, IDFG should reduce the limit to 5-6 birds. I prefer less birds and more opportunities to extend my days in the field with a healthy population. We see it far too often that conservation is not the purpose, but the access. Lastly, September season is tough on a dog with the heat and snakes are still out. By in large these guys did everything legal, but doesn’t always mean it’s the right thing to do for the sport.
Totally agree with everything you said.
I agree. Hunting legally should be the minimum. If this were a group of kids, I’d smile and shake my head, remember what I was like, and hope that someone they respect has a chat with them.
Erik, you’re a great friend of mine and I appreciate most of what you said except for the lowering the limit part. The F&G did that for a few years and found that the lower limit did nothing to help bird populations. It only helped a few people say I finally got a limit. Most people don’t ever get 8 birds. The ones that do are those that put more work into it, so the only people the lower limit hurts is the ones that live for chukar hunting. You are right about the ego part. It would be interesting to know the whole story behind the picture but I prefer to concentrate more about me and my dogs and that we do it right. I’m not saying that they didn’t but there is usually more to those pictures than we see. I’ve hunted chukars for over 60 years and I’ve never seen a time when I could get that many birds. Even if I hunted with three other people. I’m looking forward to getting out with you soon Erik. Barb and I are heading over to the area where the picture was taken and then to the Oregon opener Saturday after I post this message. I’ll be happy if I get a few birds but will be trying hard for 8 each day.
Looks like they are shooting babies. Hard not to that time of year. I realize it’s unpopular, but a later start to the season would mean more mature birds, and birds that are more dispersed and not congregating around water. The dog boxes suggest hunting out of vehicles, which I wish Idaho, or at least the WMA, would ban (also an unpopular idea). Oh well.
I agree with you on all points.
Hello Bob,
This particular destination always has been a Mecca of Chukar hunting.
I have never hunted the area, I am thinking of going there a week after next.
Keep you posted.
Cheers.
As a hunter education instructor, I don’t appreciate them putting this on social media for the public to see and share. This sort of tailgate photo shapes public perception of hunters towards the negative. As an upland hunter, I question the wisdom of killing so many birds. NDOW and ODFW reports indicate poor reproduction this year, so the most of the birds are holdover birds. That said, if they are in compliance with with IDFG regs, I respect their right to hunt how they wish.
Yeah, it’s not a good look for anyone on the fence about hunting.
Some tired happy dogs! … and probably people. It’s easy to quick judge a photo without full story or context. Early season birds probably closer to the water. If everything is done legal – good for them. I do my share of hunting in other states. I don’t believe hunting regulates chukar numbers.
Whoa! Do 4 guys really need to harvest that many birds?
I’d hate to clean that many birds, Angie!
Gross and disturbing!! Typical upland “Bro Culture” mentality that I’m unfortunately seeing more of these days on social media. In my humble opinion, the photo is not very respectful.
Why do we waste the energy on things we can’t control? It seems to me they did everything by the book, so why are publicly shaming them? Cause they posted on social media?! Who cares. Let’s condemn the fact that younger generation of men are chukar hunting and putting food in the freezer instead of going to the grocery store. As a female upland hunter, mother and a millennial the whole hunting world has become all about social media… from big game to birds. We can’t control how people want to share their hunting content. I think if everyone was given a chance to shoot a limit they would. You don’t pass it up. Looks like hard work to me and yes I understand that sharing hotspots is frowned upon.
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, Erica, and I appreciate you reading and commenting on my blog. However, I do take issue with your assumption that I’m shaming these men. Maybe that’s not your intention, but that’s how it reads to me. I shared their very public post asking for comments from the readers of this blog because I appreciate the knowledge I’ve gotten from that interaction over the past 15 years. Read the comments on their public Facebook post: some are supportive, some not, just like they are here. I do take issue with the photo (and the impulse behind it), but anyone who’s read this blog even for a year wouldn’t be surprised by that. The other thing about your comment that rankles me a bit is that you’re criticizing the wasting of energy trying to “control things we can’t control” by trying to control what people are saying here. I agree with you about social media being “out of control” but when someone puts stuff out there publicly they know the game: someone’s gonna say something about it that they don’t like. And, you’re right: I don’t pass up the chance to limit every time I hunt. But I never have limited (and if I did I wouldn’t post a tailgate shot of it). Finally, if someone really loves this “sport” (I call BS on the not-going-to-the-grocery-store argument), they’ll practice restraint and show an awareness of optics for those who might not be on board. It’s called respect and common sense, two endangered species in this world.
Thanks Bob. I’m not trying to control what anyone is trying to say on here. Like you said everyone is entitled to their own opinion. So I apologize if you think that’s what I’m trying to do here. Just stating my thoughts and opinions. Thanks for sharing yours.
This photo reminds me of those turn of the century photos of fishermen stringing 78 fish from one end of their camp to the other, arranged by size from dinks to whoppers. I agree with most of the comments I’ve read above. I’ve been upland hunting for about 40 years and I don’t think I’ve ever got my limit of anything. In addition to comments already made, I will add this: the chukar, to me, is the most magnificent game bird we have. To have them stacked like cordwood, just like the trout in those old photos, reduces this incredible bird to the moral equivalent of a hot dog. And why? For bragging rights. They need to show some respect.
Leslie
I always enjoy chukar culture posts from you and Bob. I have for many years. Many are thought provoking and often have me questioning my own values and ethics in this sport we enjoy for a variety of reasons – dogs, hiking in amazing country, challenging hunting conditions and beautiful birds! Hunting with good friends is also high on that list. I may be guilty of falling into a “Bro Culture”.
Maybe you know more about this photo than I do. I see 4 happy friends with two tired dogs and a lot of dead birds. It was posted in a chukar hunting forum that you have to join to follow. It is not all over social media – at least from what I know in the post. There will be pictures of successful hunts in these forums – some with a few dead birds to some with many dead birds. I see pictures of dead birds in Chukar Culture posts also. I’m not sure where the line is on how many dead birds in a picture make it disturbing.
It’s no secret that there are a lot of chukars on Brownlee Reservoir. You still have to find them, work your dog, shoot well and work hard. I have had great hunts shooting nothing and great hunts getting limits. I don’t post pictures of either – it’s not my thing.
Where is the line for being ethical or respectful in this sport? Fair chase (subject to individual values) and obeying the law? I can’t say from this picture that those rules weren’t followed.
I do think we have a responsibility as hunters to be cognizant of potentially offending someone who doesn’t understand our sport. But, I think there is a place where posting pictures shouldn’t lead to judgements of individual ethics and assumptions. I don’t know these people and won’t make quick judgements.
I rarely comment on anything in social media … but your comment made me stop and think and question – which is always valuable.
Much respect for you and Bob!
Jim C
Hello All,
I would be happy to clarify and/or address any issues regarding the photo or any concerns you may have.
Yes I was hesitant to post the picture because this world is jump-to-conclusions based now, I saw it more as 6 people getting together to work our dogs, see beautiful points, retrieves and hike incredible country. I spend all year scouting for chukar, training my dogs for chukar, hunting chukar (when it’s season), giving back to the chukar community and even partaking in guzzler assistance to give back to the birds.
I understand people are upset about the background, it pins exactly where the photo was taken, however the birds weren’t shot there nor one centralized location. The birds were shot in other locations but I loved the back drop and the beauty of the beloved snake river that I have enjoyed for many years.
These were hard earned birds, and an early green up made it so the birds were spread out making it difficult for every party involved. We hiked hard and we climbed to get to them.
I respect everyone that does this sport and I respect the birds just as much. They are a constant challenge, which keeps us avid bird hunters always returning for more.
80% adult birds harvested
20% yearling birds harvested
The reason behind the larger number of birds was because we got back so late the day before, we put in the cooler with ice and we joined birds together for a great picture to document the hard work of the two days.
Sorry if that offends people. This wasn’t a bragging picture, or I’m a better hunter picture. I just have a passion for upland hunting and felt like sharing what is my favorite time of the year and putting out a nice message for those about to indulge in the chase this coming season.
I understand why comments were made and just wanted to clarify for anyone who actually cared to know the story of the photo.
Hope you all have a great upland season and that it’s filled with many great miles, great dog work and connected shots!
Happy hunting.
-Nick
Hey Nick, thanks so much for your comment. As I said in my response to Erica’s post, my intention was not to shame anyone or cast judgment. I appreciate your explanation, even though it was unnecessary. We have way more in common than we don’t. As I also said in my response to Erica, it’s obvious that we don’t share the same idea about “tailgate shots,” but a photo never represents the whole story, as you so thoroughly explained. My goal for this blog, which I think reached a kind of pinnacle here, is that people can connect with different ideas and maybe be more mindful about the pursuit and what they choose to share about it. I didn’t grow up with hunting like a lot of readers did, and so I bring a different perspective to it than some; that doesn’t make it better. Some might think I put that spin on it, but — after all — it is my blog. Finally, I hope you don’t think ill of me (as I know some do) for sharing your Facebook post here. If I’m being completely honest, part of my “Hmmm…” about your photo originated in what might be called an irrational jealousy: where you were hunting used to be (when I had a boat) my stomping ground, and I never shot well enough to limit, or could hike long enough (we don’t own an ATV); and I never thought there were too many birds even on good years, so a big haul like yours kind of touched a bunch of buttons (as it did with some commenters here and on your FB post). We all want the best for this amazing bird. How we go about doing that (props to you for helping with guzzlers, etc.) differs just like people do. Thanks again for taking the time to comment so thoughtfully.
I understand. There is hunting regulations and the hard work put in to get the birds. Last season we put more birds in the bag than any other. We have as a family of 5 hunters enjoyed eating our harvest together. As get into the mid 40s hunting the area brownlee is more difficult than when I was younger. My son’s and I had a wonderfully hard hunt up there last weekend. To each thier own quest on the chukar hill. Thanks for you comment here, and most of all working your dogs with friends.
Seems some enjoy killing more than hunting.
Bob,
I appreciate the response and definitely don’t think ill of you in anyway. I think it’s great to have differing opinions on the subject at hand and I do realize where it may of come across as “these guys don’t respect the birds or just have a more profound love for killing than they do hunting.”I will say though, anyone who chukar hunts knows it’s not killing, it’s hard hunting, the birds are earned and my favorite part of the entire adventure is watching my dogs work the mountain doing what they were bred to do. Yes tailgate photos get a bad rap sheet because it shows a pile of dead birds, however to me it shows a hard days work that I can look back on and think “my dogs, friends, kids, family and I all had a great day and love the nostalgia those memories bring back to me.” Some of my best days in the mountains were 0 birds in the bag and an empty pocket in my vest. Lots of trial and error haven’t gotten me to where I am now and these birds still school me every time I pursue them.
I have enjoyed reading numerous posts you have put out, your book, YouTube videos, forum and even postings on your website; in which all have been very enjoyable to read/watch when I am not playing in the hills (Plus I think you have the absolute best chukar logo I have seen to date)
I’m not a person that gets offended by other opinions, in fact I encourage them but I did just want to put an explanation behind the photo to explain my passion and love of chukar to allow some insight to me.
Appreciate your time sir, look forward to reading more material you put out and wishing you a fun filled season in the mountains.
-Nick
Bob, one of the things I love about your blog is how it challenges me to think about my own attitudes and ethics. I , like several, might have jumped to a conclusion in this case without a lot of context. Seems common these days. I still may not like the picture but appreciate the thoughtful, respectful dialogue it provoked.
Nick, please accept my apology for jumping in (to conclusions) without knowing the full story behind the photo. I retract my statement. You obviously have the utmost RESPECT for the birds and the hunting environment. Take care.
Thanks Cliff. That’s the reason I wanted to put some words behind the picture. Have a great hunting season sir!
Thanks, and you, also.
The paws on the dog lying down look beat up. Am I right or am I seeing things?
Her paws are dyed with a henna based product to strengthen her pads for more longevity on the hill. Surprisingly it works great and the recovery time is much quicker than a dog without it. That country was tough on the dogs but they are the first priority so try to give them the best products for maximum results.
I’ve hunted there several times, we used to rent an old lodge on the ID side of the reservoir, the last 2 times in early October based on everyone’s availability. We stopped going for a couple of reasons, 1) it’s still too warm generally, commonly getting into the 70’s and low 80’s, and it’s damn snakey as well, and 2) the birds are at the waters’ edge every morning and evening, in large groups as its obviously still warm-to-very warm and very dry. Accordingly, we would hunt the relatively lower reaches of the slopes, say between 200′ – 500′ above the reservoir, during early morning and late afternoon, to avoid the midday heat. In short we killed a lot of birds over 2-3 days, but it felt a bit like cheating and we stopped going that early in the season … No judgement at all as I’m sure these gents did everything right, just sharing my experiences there … We still go but later in the season, Hell’s Canyon is flat-out the most amazing bird-hunting locale I’ve ever been to …
The trophy for all those chukar belongs squarely to the bird dog in the lower right-hand corner. Sadly, the photographer committed a grievous sin: cropping out half the hero. That dog is clearly exhausted and deserves at least 50% of the credit. The other dog—thankfully fully visible—earns the other half. As for the four human specimens? They look like a band of over-caffeinated adolescents flexing over their kill count. I say that with love—I used to be one of them. Now I just root for the dogs and give thanks for the chukar.
The main problem here is giving attention to this in hot-spotting this area. Being a 5th generation idahoan since the social media eruption this areas hunting traffic has increased beyond what is good for the wildlife and habitat. Not saying I haven’t had a part in it all…
After reading through these comments thus far, I’ll just add the following. There have been several times in my life of chukar hunting that I’ve shot close to a limit, and my hunting partner did as well. We did take tailgate pictures of the birds, and yes, there were enough they were piled up pretty high. While I shared these photos through text messages with a couple of friends, the last thing I wanted to do was to make them into posts in the multitude of upland bird hunting groups I belong to.
Why?? Well, the types of pictures I post include my dogs on point, my hunting partner walking toward his dogs on point, scenic shots of the country we hunt, sometimes I’ll post a dog retrieving a bird, and very rarely, I’ll post a photo of 1 or 2 birds next to my side-by-side 16-gauge shotgun, with my dog in the background. In that case, it’s about my love for the shotgun and my dog, not that I killed 1 or 2 birds.
Frankly, I cringe every time I see a tailgate shot of birds stacked up to the sky posted in these groups, they kind of make me sick, if I’m being completely honest. It’s not the dead birds, heck I’ve been hunting upland birds longer than a lot of folks out there have even been alive, I’m OK with dead birds. It’s the idea that there are large groups of hunters potentially wiping out entire coveys of birds, with no regard for their conservation… then feeling the need to “prove” to everyone what great hunters they are by posting photos like this, thereby disrespecting the birds that just gave up their lives in the name of the group’s hunting success.
I fully realize I’m making judgments about people I don’t even know, and in writing what I just did, I sincerely apologize to the person who made the post in this case and very much appreciate and respect your willingness to speak out and share your perspective. But I still don’t like seeing the picture. I really don’t. In my opinion, there are much better ways to convey the joy of a successful hunt.
For me, it’s always about honoring these beautiful, wild creatures that sacrifice so much for us in the name of our entertainment. Thus I endeavor to post any photos I take of them in the most respectful manner I can, and that does not include any with the bodies of dead upland birds piled up on the tailgate of my pickup or ATV.
All this is my opinion of course, and I fully recognize many if not most enjoy the tailgate shots. If that’s you, you may find my comments here ridiculous, hypocritical, even sacrilegious. We all have our own perspective on these things, I get that. But Bob asked what people thought, so I shared my answer. It’s how I look at life.
Not to get all political and sh*t (’cause I’m not like that), but I’m thinking of sending these comments and this discussion to the US Congress as an example of how differing viewpoints can be discussed without insults or finger-pointing and resulting in what feels like a better, much better outcome than anyone expected. I appreciate everything everyone said, and am grateful for the time each person took to express themselves in a thoughtful, civil manner. Well done. I’ll think twice (or three or four times) from now on when I see a tailgate shot. Maybe someone will spend an extra second or two looking through their camera roll before deciding which photos to share. It’s all good. Thanks again!
Bob,
Thank you point out the over killed picture of these Nevada chukar Hunters.
To me is pretty upsetting picture of these Naive young birds, very Easy targets, ones you come up onto them.
I certainly would not be proud of the kill of these birds! I am not too Sure, if they are over their limits, looks to me, they are! For a day limits Shoot! if they are!
I hope somebody from the Idaho Fish & Wildlife sees it and would get In touch with them.
Safe hunting.
Best.
Extremely in poor taste to post this photo online. It showcases the douchebag-bro’ mentality and it’s very doubtful that the dogs used in this ground sluicing slaughter even pointed those birds. Nick Dougherty may be acting like a gentleman with his responses here, but check out his rebuttal on the nevada chukar hunter fb page. It’s the “look at me” degeneration at its finest
I’d say that this Nick Dougherty character must be suffering some self esteem symptons. An obvious hot spotting photo of a bunch of bro/dudes posing with basically chicks of the year proved nothing. The german breeds aren’t quite capable of truly pointing that many birds and I’m sure like most of the bro/dudes who use the short hairs and wirehair breeds, these “pointers” get used as flushers. Just extremely poor taste to even post this photo on the internet and I feel bad for the Brownlee Res hunters that got hot spotted and ground sluiced to hell by this cabal of clownage
I believe that I witnessed this group hunting near Brownlee. Dogs hugging ankles or even behind hunters, birds being shot on the ground and a bunch of yee haws and yahoos being thrown out. It sounded like a shooting range and oh did I mention all of the spent shotgun shells laying all over the place? This photo that was volunteering submitted on the internet has firmly cemented this group on the bird hunting wall of shame but hey, at least they got a good tailgate hero shot!
Not sure which is more bodacious: a slaughter young of the year chukker first part of the season when it’s hot and they’re concentrated on water or posting a pic on www with the quintessential dude ‘hero shot’ and hot spotting the Brownlee area. These dudes ain’t heroes and I wonder if they even bothered to pick up the shot shells off the ground during and after the carnage
I’m from Weiser and I heard there was a large group of what was described to me as ‘flat brimmers’ from Nevada, blasting away at the local bird population. Shooting them off guzzlers and roads, running up and down the hills in front of the bird dogs, gunshot coming off like a trap shoot and basically a if it flies it dies attitude. Sadly, it looks like we were struck by this Nick Dougherty & Co. Extremely unwise decision for out of staters to come up here and pull this shit and I can tell you that the locals are riled up. Top it off with that hot spotting Bro grip and grin photo blasted all over the internet and I’d say that, even though it’s early in the season that, this chick killing crew should be awarded the Douchebags in Bird Hunting Trophy of the year